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Supported By
Manchester Express v Shropshire Panthers - 28/04/2002
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There was quite an avid discussion on this website's bulletin board after the Express game at Shropshire which saw the umpire injured and one of the players step in and make some inconsistent decisions - on both sides, particulary on a couple of [possible] home runs, and a [possible] tag at third which saw this picture appear on the Shropshire website. Read from the bottom to make [some] sense of it. |
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Guestbook / Bulletin Board
| By | Memo | Date |
| Ronan | hmmm...I umpired the Halton / A`s game on Sunday. I didn`t allow ANY comments at all...very little controversy and a complimentary email from the Halton Manager came my way - I learnt the hard way about umpiring - The umpire MUST be absolutley brutal in enforcing no interventional comments or appeals from anyone other than managers. Once a decision is made it is final. Any infringement = warning followed by ejection for a further offence. If the culprit is unclear then the penalty falls on his manager. If players ty to barrack an umpire by calling a play before him = he calls it the other way! This approach has never let me down and I haven`t ejected anyone since employing this tough approach. This is how I umpire and how the A`s treat umpires - in recognition of their authority - Finally : see rule 9.01d =8-)(-----) | 1 May 2002 |
| roj | I agree RV, just because we import this great game from the US doesn`t mean we have to take all the arguing with it. I don`t see the US too keen on taking football hooliganism along with the importing of football (soccer), and yet you could say that`s part of the game. | 1 May 2002 |
| Rv | To finish about last Sunday game... I agree with the last Panther who left a message on the board. That was a great exciting game of baseball, shame that the weather was not great as well. I have been playing baseball for 15 years, and all the discussion on the board just prove that umpire must be strong from the beginning, no comment from any player allowed!! or out! if not things are just going worst and worst. Umpire can make mistakes. I`m sure we`ll all have a great game at Manchester next time. | 30 April 2002 |
| Another Panther | Hey guys I was proud to be part of that game on Sunday and I can honestly say that even if we had lost I still would have been because it was a great game. We need to look at the more positive aspects, I thought it was a game that had a fairly high standard for UK Baseball and that was from both teams. I thought you guys did exceptionaly well considering your starting pitchers couldn`t make it, and I think we played well considering its only our second year together. I hope there will be no sour grapes because I enjoyed playing against you guys unlike some teams I could mention but won`t. I wish you guys the best for the rest of the season and hopefully we might see you in the final four....... | 30 April 2002 |
| roj | You may be right its getting a bit long and confusing now. As Frank pointed out it probably is worth keeping this chat for the future though, so I may just archive it off and leave it linked from the match report. Unless anyone has a better idea, since it seems pretty busy in here today. Oh and thanks for all of you keeping it reasonable clean. Looking forward to the replay, hopefully for west conference title decider! | 30 April 2002 |
| Panther | Think you`re misunderstanding me roj, I understand and agree with you. I think if you read through all of the postings you`ll see that `Frank, Really` is one of your guys. See his response to `Another Spectator` and I think you`ll agree. | 30 April 2002 |
| roj | It is your site that is bringing up the tag (have you seen the zoomed in shot!), we think its just one of those judgment calls that goes either way, as Rv said, end of story, hardly helps you ump bringing it up on your site if you ask me. And yeh on the HR of course you can`t be sure, but the ump took your CF`s word for it, and we accepted it, but next innings he didn`t take our player`s word for the play in RF, that`s what really bites me, how is that consistent, and that`s all you can ask for in any umpire. As for getting wound up after, it was your player `Frank, Really` who bought all this up on OUR site. | 30 April 2002 |
| Panther | And one on the tapes. Nobody, on either side, wants to feel like a HR`s been taken away from him. And lets face it, when it looks like it`s close you`re always going to be shouting, `IT WAS OVER!!!`, but you can`t really be sure, can you? | 30 April 2002 |
| Panther | The only reason Rich umpired was because he was the only offially qualified umpire there. If not for that we would not have had a legal game. Your catcher had as much to say to the umpire as ours and, hey, that`s a part of his job. I`ve been playing this game concistently for the last 19 years and I`ve never seen teams get so wound up about decisions after the game is over. It`s a part of it and lets face it it`s the worst part about the game. Nobody wants to umpire! As far as the tag`s concerned, I don`t give a monkeys and don`t think anyone should. I know that one day a call`s going to go my way or against me depending on the umpires` view, so be it, laugh it off and walk away. If we had up to 7 umpires on the field as they do in the states it would make their job a lot easier, but we don`t and we must just either live with it or get a bench-player from each side to call the bases for us. Perhaps a solution for next time? | 30 April 2002 |
| roj | I will think about keeping it, or most of it, the tone has changed a lot since I said I would remove it all. But this board was always going to be moderated, we do have juniors and sponsors who read this. | 30 April 2002 |
| Frank, Really | I would like to say, I know I started this great big discussion, I think this is one of the best discussions I have seen on this Website, Its just a shame the WEBMASTER, doesn`t share the same views. People had there say, if you wipe this off, whats the point of a webpage, were people get a say. Well done to both teams, can`t wait for the re-match. | 30 April 2002 |
| Rv | OK! I was the manager of the Express, and I`d like to add a word about all this. I try to limit the arguments between my players and the umpire. It was my job to question his call when I thought they were wrong, and I think because his inexperience and your catcher putting the pressure on him for every call, he made many bad calls, for both side! The Express players would tell you that I was absolutely fed up with both the poor quality of the umpiring, the big mouth of your catcher, and the remarks of the Express. I`m on the field to play baseball. I`m sorry that the 1st umpire get injured, I hope that he`ll get better as soon as possible. I`m also sorry that one of your best player had to step in instead of playing, why not someone else? And to finish, about the tag... I tag the guy, before or after his foot reach the base, I don`t know and it does not matter, umpire called him out and game is over. | 30 April 2002 |
| Webmaster | Since we are playing each other again with just two games to go, I hope we both keep our form up and are playing for a place in the playoffs, that would be sweet. Its certainly better to be in a game than play in a one sided affair. | 30 April 2002 |
| Panther | I agree whole-hartedly with you. Even if it is concistently crap! Unfortunately I have no say over the content of our web-site. None of us `players` enjoy a game when everyone`s getting upset with the umpire. Gracious winners, gracious losers, and leave it all at that, it doesn`t help either of our sporting reputations to have sour grapes over it, it`s petty and childish. Looking forward to a read hum-dinger. Good luck with the rest of the season. | 30 April 2002 |
| Webmaster | I agree with all of that, I think the umpire was inexperienced and didn`t have a great game, but I think everyone should apprciate him stepping in. Plus you have to expect tough times on the road. I think the only think that really got to the Express was that the umpire trusted your CF to call a GRD, fair enough, but then didn`t trust Expess RF to do the same in the next innings, how is that consistent? Consistency is the main think. Also I think it unfair your website to show the missed tag and imply Express did all the arguing, anyone watching will have seen your catcher speak out more than anyone. And that is enough, I will be removing all this banter tonight, it is not appropriate. Roll on the next game, if one of our starting pitrchers is available you will be in for a tough time, but only at baseball none of this off the field rubish. | 30 April 2002 |
| Panther | I agree that the umpiring was not of a great standard, calls were bad at the plate and elsewhere for both teams. Please remember that Panthers had to sacrifice our scheduled relief pitcher and top batter in order for the game to have gone ahead at all. Perhaps if your catcher had been able to catch the ball in the first place the umpire would not have been hurt. Unfortunately like any other game you have to deal with bad decisions and just get on with it. How you can expect the umpire to see the outfield boundary is a mystery to me so we have to trust each-others decisions in the outfield. Looking forward to a cracker of a game when we meet again on your turf! | 30 April 2002 |
| Spectator | Indeed your umpire was so trusting he let your catcher make all the calls for him. Shame that some british players feel that americans must always be right, anyone would think they invented the game! | 30 April 2002 |
| Iwaz Dare | This is total BS, Danny (Express) hit a HR and shropshire CF stood on boundary and jumped, and couldn`t reach it. The Hit you refer to by shropshire player went so high SS, CF and RF were all right there by the time it landed and all 3 saw it land 3 foot inside the boundary. Since its the same spot where the two Express HRs were hit in the first innings I think you were looking at the wrong mark. | 30 April 2002 |
| FRANK,REALLY | THINK THE PITCH MARK YOU ARE REFERING TO IS THE ONE THAT OUR GUY HIT,AND MORE LIKE SIX FOOT OVER. THE MARK YOU REFER TO IS PROBABLY WHERE THE FIELDER LANDED. | 30 April 2002 |
| CW | seen the "evidence" on the shropshire website. 3rd base tag.... clearly this photo / video has been tampered with or the camera shot was after the tag and Hervé was pulling away to begin his celebration. I was there.......don`t believe everything you read !Great tag Hervé. | 29 April 2002 |
| Another Spectator | What your match report failed to mention was that a Shropshire player also hit a home run, but, being a trusting kind of guy, the umpire took your centre fielders word that it had landed before the outfield boundary, although a later inspection showed a dirty great pitchmark some three feet the other side. I think that is called a 1-1 draw. | 29 April 2002 |
| Frank, Really | Just seen the Shropshire Web Site, nice tag Hervé. | 29 April 2002 |
| Spectator | Well Done express. Its a shame the original umpire didn`t stay in the game, you would have won easy. (Did the second umpire, know what a home run, strike etc was)? p.s. some nice OLD and young totty on the field. Why don`t you all have white pants? | 29 April 2002 |
NB: game reports are the views of the contributor and are not those of the club, webmaster, or any sponsor, partner, employer, or the league.